eBay Feedback Mechanism Pisses Me Off
This is a whine. You might be interested to know I also have a very savory brie to go with it.
Recently I found the perfect birthday gift for my brother. He’s all growed up with kids and everything, but is still a big kid, especially when it comes to comic books. The guy flies multi-million dollar aircraft for UPS (I’m no longer allowed to call him “Brown” or tell him what he can do for me today), but can’t setup his email or Google the inter spaces to save his life. But name a character in a comic book, and he can quote you chapter and verse. Or however it is that comics are organized.
You might have heard that to promote the new (and, let’s face it, fucking disappointing) Fantastic 4 movie, 20th Century Fox had 40,000 quarters stamped with a Silver Surfer emblem, and had planned to release them into the wild until the U.S. Mint got all uppity. Well some of them made it into circulation, which of course means they wound up on eBay.
Long story short, I paid about $100 to an eBay seller for one of them. In case you nodded off, I paid $100 for a goddamned quarter. Laugh it up now, but in 20 years it’s going to be worth $110. Who’ll be laughing then beyotch?
Here’s your Madame Obvious eBay tip of the day: When looking at someone’s feedback score, even if they have a positive score of 99.99% and a bajillion positive feedbacks, look at the last 3 months of comments. I wish I’d done that. My seller, with an overall feedback score of 99.8%, has been selling for a long time. Unfortunately he started slacking (or sold his account) a couple months ago, and roughly 1/4 of his feedback within the last couple months is either negative or neutral.
My experience with this seller: no communication, took forever to ship, and even when my $100 quarter finally did arrive weeks later, it was rolling around loosely in a plain envelope, uninsured, even though I payed for insured. There was a tear in the envelope that only through sheer luck it hadn’t tumbled through. After seeing that, I had to take it to a comic book store in Santa Cruz just to make sure it was the genuine article, which thankfully it was. But because it had been rolling around in an envelope all the way through USPS, it was scuffed enough that it couldn’t be considered “mint” as the seller had advertised.
As I tracked back the negative comments left on this seller’s profile, I saw that he had in turn left negative comments on their profiles. Apparantly all of his buyers were liars, didn’t read the auction, and were just downright delusional. All hundred or so of them.
Here’s where the eBay feedback system is broken. I don’t do a lot of eBay transactions, so whereas this guy has a feedback score of something like 32,000 my feedback score is 12. Because he deals in volume, 1 negative feedback score isn’t going to hurt him at all. But when he writes a “revenge” feedback to reply to mine, my score drops from 100% to 91.6%. Ouch. Of course anyone can play detective and get a more accurate picture, but how many eBayers do that? (that’s not rhetorical, I really don’t know)
There’s a simple fix to this problem, and for Christ’s sake I can’t understand why eBay doesn’t see it. The system just needs to be tweaked such that neither party gets to see each other’s feedback until both leave feedback. This would eliminate “revenge” feedback, and encourage both parties to leave a true accounting of the transaction. There could also be a timer mechanism, so that after a certain amount of time the feedback of one party appears even if the other party left no feedback, and further feedback would be closed. This would encourage both parties to leave feedback in a timely manner.
Am I missing something? Would that be so hard to do?
I thought briefly of going through the dispute system, but this morning I noticed his account has been closed. So um…yeah. I’ll go through the motions, but I’m pretty sure I’m stuck with a $100 quarter that’s probably worth somewhere between $0.26 and $60. My brother will no doubt love it scuffs and all, but it’s all left me pretty jaded on the eBay experience.
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Yeah, I totally agree. While I’m not a big eBayer myself, I do sometimes wonder what prevents people from doing exactly what your seller did, which apparently is nothing
You have a pretty good suggestion, I just hope someone at eBay thinks of it as well.
A++++ THIS WAS A GREAT ARTICLE. WELL WRITTEN WOULD – READ AGAIN!!
OMG! I’m glad I swallowed my Coke just before I read that or my monitor would be really pissed right now.
Something about ebay I can’t stand is the seller not leaving feedback until the buyer does. As a seller, I leave feedback when I get the payment. I don’t wait for the buyer to leave feedback and then reciprocate. He held up his end and sent me money, so I need to hold up my end by sending his item and leaving appropriate feedback. This I’ll leave you some if you leave me some is just stupid.
I’ve talked to a bunch of sellers about this and they all have the same two answers. 1)How do I know you’re going to leave ME feedback? 2)My system is automated and won’t leave feedback until you do. My responses to these: 1) You don’t know. I might, I might not. That doesn’t matter, you should be holding up your end and supporting the system. 2)Well, then your system sucks. Automate it to leave feedback when payment is received, then, idiot.
So now, of course, I just turn it around and don’t give till I get. A small protest, as Amber points out, since there scores are usually high enough that mine won’t make a difference. Maybe I should just start leaving neutral feedback for those PITAs.
I think Amber’s solution might help with this problem as well. The new “star” rating system that let’s you rate anonymously in addition to the feedback may also help.
From my days as a seller, I’ve found the “Response” feature to anyone’s feedback to be golden, especially when it’s retaliatory. If someone IS looking, your side of the story has a chance to be seen. Of course, who’s actually going to spend that much time checking out another ebayer?
Meh. Ebay’s not the marketplace it used to be, but there must be an alternative out there somewhere. Anybody know?
The dispute system eBay has is worthless. I paid $20 to dispute some jerkoff that revenge’d me for a $0.99 comic book (I think your brother and I would get along well), and all they had to do was nothing. Not only did they rip me off of less-than-a-dollar, I then paid $20 on top of that privilege. I ‘won’ the dispute, in that they never responded, but all that did was remove the negative score from my overall scoring. But the negative comments still show up there! I’ve never sold anything, but I have to wonder if having a negative feedback is as important to a buyer as it is to a seller. Anyway, I doubt this blathering was any help to you, but there you go.
Yeah, eBay is more or less “buyer beware”. There are a million different things that are a total annoyance about the whole system.
One problem is that the system was built out of what I can only assume is bailing wire and bubble gum. Let’s take a look at an auction URL:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200126643272
Notice that one part int here, “eBayISAPI.dll”? Yeah, that means the system was (likely at one time) running through a .dll file. You don’t see that very often on other sites; there’s a reason. I suspect making even small improvements is the equivalent of looking through 10-year-old MMORPG code to fix anything.
The thing I have always really hated about eBay is the last-minute auction thing. Back when I was buying Magic: the Gathering cards (ancient geek alert!), I hated Dutch auctions where someone could come in and bid one penny more at the very last second and get the cards. No good way to get a good deal on those things unless you did the same thing yourself. (Of course, now auction sniping is a way of life if you want to win anything anymore.)
But, my story gets even more cute. I wrote in to complain about what I thought was an unfair practice. Some guy named Pierre wrote back and told me to essentially STFU. If I had wanted the item, I should have just bid more, natch! Kinda defeating the whole purpose of engaging in an auction to get a good price, don’t you think? (And, wonderful customer service to match!)
Ah, well. Some people named Pierre became millionaires, and the rest of us get fucked over by the feedback mechanism.
I don’t leave feedback until the buyer does because there is a good chance they will procrastinate after the item arrives, especially if they have low feedback – I’m still easily owed 100 feedback. Not only that, I do it to protect my ass, in case someone pops me with a negative. I have had uppity pricks pop me with negatives before contacting me with what they weren’t happy about and when I offered 100% refunds including all shipping costs in the item description, of course after I left a positive as soon as they paid. I do like Amber’s idea of anonymous feedback, it favors buyers more than sellers, as it probably should – don’t bid on my auctions if you have less than 50 feedback! Learn to bid, newb.
That’s not the whole purpose of engaging in an auction. Sure, often you are able to get good prices on merchandise on e-Bay, but an auction is a competition. If there’s more than one person who wants an item, and the other person wants it bad enough to push the price above the bargain level, you have to make the decision how bad you want that item. That’s how you can end up paying $100 for a FREEKIN’ QUARTER!! The thing that makes auction buying fun is the fact that there is some chance involved. Sometimes the auction works out in the favor of the seller, sometimes it works out in the favor of the buyer.
I still buy things on e-Bay, though not nearly as much as I used to. I agree the feedback system needs work, but if you understand the shortcomings and know how to read the feedback (such as taking Amber’s advice of focusing on recent feedback instead of looking at the total score), it can be useful.
One more thing about the quarter in question. It’s value will only be important at the time someone wishes to sell it. Based on your description of your brother, he will never consider selling it, so the only time that will come into play is when you are sifting through his possessions after he has crashed his plane in the South Pacific.
There’s one way to avoid revenge negative feedback — leave the negative feedback at the last possible moment. Both you and the seller have a window of time (I think it’s 90 days) to leave feedback. So just wait until 89 days, 23:59 and leave the negative feedback. By the time they realize it, they can’t revenge rate you.
Kinda sleazy, but sometimes you’ve got to be sleazy when dealing with sleazeballs.
I’m one of those users who won’t leave feedback until I get it first, as I’ve probably been stiffed a good seventy or more feedbacks because of lazy people. Seems to me that people want their feedback and are more inclined to leave feedback if they are waiting for their feedback still.
Also, I hate to admit it, but I’m one of those snipers. It’s a flaw in the system, I guess, but I’m not going to start bidding on an item when it has five days left. No way, as that just leads to the price spiraling out of control. I know what I’ll pay for something, and will put that in as my max bid with maybe a minute left (usually), so I’m not being cheap — I just want a chance to get somthing for what I value it at.
Sorry that you ran into a dick Amber, that sucks.
Your solution has a small problem that becomes a gaping flaw. I’d just make a second account and watch my own feedback so I can see through the ‘blind feedback’ screen.
Assholes abound, good research before purchasing is mandatory. ebay is no longer ‘new’ or ‘in the hands of the people’ IMO.
Ok, Blake and Krones:
What happens when one of you purchases something from the other? Neither of you is going to leave feedback first, so no gets it.
While I agree with Grimwell’s second point, that the innocence ebay had in the beginning is gone, I don’t think contributing to the problem is defensible.
So what if the other guy is an ass or just lazy; that justifies being an ass as well?
I’m no eBay expert (I’ve only done a handful of purchases/sales) but I was similarly annoyed by the uselessness of feedback to a seller. Say I’m a buyer and I see an item I want. I check the seller’s feedback and make a judgment call on his trustworthiness. Easy enough. This part works.
Now say I’m a seller and I get a bid. I can still look up the bidder’s feedback, and if it’s good, then great! We’ll cut a deal. But…if the bidder’s feedback is BAD, how do I say “no thanks, you don’t appear to be very reliable”? Sure, I could unlist the item, but that means I lose the deposit fee.
It was frustrating to see bad feedback on a bidder (“backed out; didn’t remit payment even after item shipped”), and to have no recourse. Like I said, I’m something of an eBay noob, so maybe there’s a solution I missed.
yeh i just got screwed by a seller, he told me it the amplifier i bought was in perfect condition and that it would be double boxed. It wasn’t double boxed, it took minor shipping damage, and a major function of the amp was broken, but i can’t do anything about it or he threatens to give me negative feedback, eBay refuses to help and it leaves me screwed and ripped off. There is no recourse for a buyer. Sellers should be required to leave feedback first, they receive the money and thats the end of the buyer’s responsabillities in the eBay contract, the buyer receives the item later and that is the end of the seller’s contract, it is unfair for a buyer to have to feedback first. Seller’s can respond to a negative feedback with a note underneath it on their own page, they don’t need to hold the power to retaliate with feedback.
I think sellers who don’t leave feedback should be charged double their auction fee by ebay to encourage them to post feedback first and not wait for a buyer.
Tony’s comment (7/17) “There’s one way to avoid revenge negative feedback — leave the negative feedback at the last possible moment” is an idea. However, I understand it is possible to leave feedback AFTER the 90 day limit provided you know the EBay item number. Unscrupulous sellers (and buyers) know every trick in the book.
Amber’s fix to the EBay feedback problem is right on the mark. It would be so easy to implement, and would eliminate the problem of retaliatory feedback.