Honestly
I’m tempted to use a “nail, meet the coffin that is the increasingly nail-laden receptacle that—it is almost certain—holds the still-twitching-but-mostly-dead remains of Vanguard” metaphor, but I think it’s unfair to games that actually had any sort of life to make such a comparison. A more apt metaphor might be some kind of fetus in a dumpster thing, but then I’d get email, and I’m really tired this week.
In any case, the entity formerly known as Sigil are being slurped up into Big SOE:
The Vanguard development team is relocating its offices to SOE’s San Diego campus effective Monday, October 15, 2007.
It was bound to happen, and it’s fairly obvious that this is not so much the beginning of the end, as it is the next logical face-saving step for SOE when the inevitable finally happens. I mean, we know that SOE are going to put as upbeat a picture of this as they can, but…
Under the new leadership of Thom Terrazas, an eight-year SOE veteran, SOE will continue its commitment to Vanguard and its players. The remaining Vanguard team members are going to continue to deliver on an exceptional product. They are a creative force in the online games space and we look forward to continuing the vision for Vanguard and to continue to deliver groundbreaking game play.
Damn. They’re good. Wait…that’s not the right word. Delusional? Closer, but still implies that SOE believes what they’re saying. And I don’t know what’s worse: that they really do believe Vanguard is an “exceptional product,” that it has any sort of “vision,” or that it “deliver[s] groundbreaking game play,” or that they’re crass enough to try to convince the vestigial Vanguard hanger-ons that this game has any sort of long-term future.
I’m cynical enough to believe it’s the latter. As a business with, you know, shareholders and evil Gnomeish overlords who must be appeased, SOE needs to recoup something from this disaster. The longer they can keep the existing user base, the better. And this is perhaps not such a bad thing. If SOE can ever credibly claim that Vanguard either didn’t lose money, or at least didn’t lose a metric assload of money, then perhaps this keeps the door open for future, hopefully more successful, products.
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October 17th, 2007 at 8:36 am
I actually disagree with you.
Vaguard actually has a fair bit of potential. The world is interesting and worth exploring, and the clases have some good flavor. It really comes down to just needing to unfuck the engine more that anything else. If they can do that I think it stands a chance.
(That and they really need to drop all acess back down to $20-25. For some reason $30 is a breaking point for me, but to be able to play eq1, eq2, vanuard, and planetside for $25 would be a no brainer).
October 17th, 2007 at 9:32 am
Ok, I don’t know details on the financials, but maybe them not losing money isn’t so far-fetched after all…. considering I don’t think they’d have to account for the money that Microsoft already lost in it. (At least, I thought MS wrote off a chunk back when they and Sigil parted ways.)
October 17th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
I actually disagree with you.
Vanguard has come LEAPS and BOUNDS over the Piece of crap that was sent out on launch day. The game still has the Best classes of Any MMo On the Market. The world is Massiave and with GU3 far more close to semeless then Ever befor.
This is the game that we shoulda launched with. if SOE had gotten off of their bigold lazzy Butts then we mighta had a good launch.
That said the server pop has ever so slowly been Increasing after the server merger (Oppinion based on what ive seen in game, not any numbers).
This game has far more potential in it than EQ2 and 1000 times better classes than Wow.
P.s. if your makeing claims about the game plz tell us What server your on?
October 17th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
I think I was on hilsbury. Past tense.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
Potential? What the hell? Are you not gamers on a forum? Are you new to this sort of thing? Do you really think anyone’s going to give a shit about this game a year down the line, once they fix it? Hell, do you actually think they’re going to bring it up to any sort of level that can be deemed “fixed”?
It’s a fantasy MMORPG with an enormous grind and it doesn’t run on most people’s computers. And now it’s owned and operated by SOE, one of the most hated companies in the industry. Plus, they’re competing in a market that’s dominated almost entirely by fantasy MMORPGs with an enormous grind and they’re only selling point is that it’s exactly like everything we’ve already played before.
Hell, my forum has 730 people on it and I think 1 still plays it. And he doesn’t play often, apparently. I’ve been to the edge of the internet and back, and no one’s talking about this game because no one cares. Small updates six months down the line won’t change that.
If you’re going to claim that this game will ever be anything more than a colossal fuck up, then you’ve got to be so far removed from reality that I’d be surprised if you didn’t think you were typing these words onto a dinosaur.
SOE’s also claiming that Star Wars Galaxies is doing fantastic and that the game has more sandbox elements then ever before. And, oddly enough, everyone can swear that the servers are getting fuller by the day.
It’s called bullshit. SOE’s touch of death is inescapable and absolute. Nothing recovers. Nothing survives.
October 17th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
For those that don’t know already, I’m a SOE employee and have an internet crush on Amber.
So I’m biased, and probably sleep on a bed made from dead babies according to some of you.
That said, those who want to cast doom on Vanguard and hate SOE for things that happened years ago are wrong. Sure, Vanguard didn’t launch well and Sigil paid a steep price for that, but the game is not dead no matter how comforting some might find that.
Getting the Vanguard team on the same campus as the rest of us gives them face to face access with support teams (community, operations, etc.) and makes it clear that they are a part of the family and we like the family. (I’m the drunk uncle if anyone is wondering).
Sky: not falling.
October 17th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
Doh! Even as I wrote this post, I just *knew* Grimwell was going to show up and make me feel bad.
FWIW, I stand by the post, but as I said in the closing argument I certainly can see that there are financial benefits to the move, and I recognize that SOE is a for-profit company. But I also believe the announcement might defy the reality of the situation.
Vanguard succeeding would only be good for the industry and good for players. I’ll be the first to eat my words if SOE can pull it off. Well…not first. I’m a little too shallow for that. But I’ll probably be somewhere behind the charge.
And just so everyone knows, Grimwell is lying about the dead babies. It’s even worse than that. They’re still alive!!
October 18th, 2007 at 4:54 am
Wow Bissrok…. You wake up on the wrong side of the bed or is that just you??? Man if it is I feel sorry for your wife/Gf.
Reading your fourms I see a few Verry bitter people on there.. and on a lot of other fourms for that matter.
As far as SWG I only tryed the 14 day trial a few months ago…/agree its crap. But I have nothing Prior to base it on.
Im currently playing Eve online for almost 2 years now. it has gone from 5000+ people average a day to 20K average a day Peaking at 35K+
To say a game that has a bad launch is Doomed forever more is a load of crap.
IF SOE does like they claim and Continue to Inprove on the game, And give it the Relaunch that have Promised. Then we shall see if it has any Chance at a growth spurt. Exp is silly easy now with restXp. And Most people are having fun with it and like i said befor its classes are better and More Diverse than any thing in other class based MMos.
If your just SO bitter at SOE then plz jump off a cliff and let those that can see that SOE mighta learned from their past Fubars, and are trying to Improve, Let them have a Chance to Show us if the Fudge they are Spewing from their mouths is Crap or Chocolate… ok thats about the Strangest Annalogy ive ever stutterd….
SOE is gana be Hosting POTBS and yet everyone is Screaming at the top of their Lungs that SOE has bought and Killed another MMo befor its even released.
Ok thats enough for now gana go play my nice and fairly Stable Vanguard have fun all.
P.s. As a DE I fully Support the idea of a bed of Dead(or alive) Babies.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:04 am
Late to the show yet again
Just wanted to add my four peneth worth here. I am a Vanguard player and have been for a while, yes we have been through terrible performance, crash to desktop issues, empty servers and sundry other problems that would have killed most games but we are still here. I love this game and am enjoying my gaming experience greatly.
Thank you SOE
October 18th, 2007 at 9:43 am
Out of curiosity, just what is a metric assload, exactly?
Oh, and if you could translate that into pounds, that would be great. Tnx!
October 18th, 2007 at 10:32 am
If you look at this, they may not actually be talking about Vanguard. The writer uses vanguard as a subject, not necessarily as the object.
Under the new leadership of Thom Terrazas, an eight-year SOE veteran, SOE will continue its commitment to Vanguard and its players. The remaining Vanguard team members are going to continue to deliver on an exceptional product. They are a creative force in the online games space and we look forward to continuing the vision for Vanguard and to continue to deliver groundbreaking game play.
The “commitment to Vanguard” is undefined. We in the privet sector do not actually know what that commitment entails. It could be defined by a time limit or an acquired revenue limit.
“Remaining Vanguard team members are going to continue to deliver on an exceptional product.”
What exceptional product? In no place is the exceptional product defined as Vanguard in the overall comment.
“They are a creative force in the online games space and we look forward to continuing the vision for Vanguard and to continue to deliver groundbreaking game play.”
Again, Vanguard is not the explicit object of this sentence, the “remaining team” is, the subject is “the vision for Vanguard”.
The idea behind what vanguard was SUPPOSED to me is pretty solid. The result was found… lacking. Being committed to that vision is not the same as being committed to Vanguard. I do not think anyone involved is so blind as to think this IP can recover. My honest assessment is this statement is not what it seems upon first reading. I think they will let Vanguard die and move the remaining team to another or a new project dispersing what ever talent their may be into other more profitable projects.
Hell, SOE may even be using Vanguard as a training tool.
“Okay, we will heir you for project ‘X’ but you need to spend time learning what NOT to do… I sentence you to 6 months of Vanguard development with no parole!”
Just offering an alternative… you know, a bright-side.
Alright, I’ll admit there really is no firm bright-side to Vanguard as it exists now.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:54 am
Oh don’t feel bad Amber, you are entitled to your opinions and I would never want to read anything here but the unfiltered truth.
“Hell, SOE may even be using Vanguard as a training tool.”
That’s funny, but we aren’t nefarious enough to think of something like that.
So what’s SOE’s commitment to Vanguard?
Again, I’m not an executive, so I don’t make the decisions, but obviously it is in our best business interest to see the game alive, free from mind numbing launch bugs (nothing like falling through the world is there?), and populated with a stable and growing community.
Will Vanguard ever hit the millions of users the original owners had hoped for? Let’s be honest and call that unlikely.
Can Vanguard be profitable with less than a million users? Most definitely.
So I read the commitment of the game team that will be working on Vanguard with us in San Diego to be one of making constant and consistent improvements to the game such that we can please the existing players (who are fucking super troopers if you think about the launch they went through) and possibly recruit a few new ones over time.
The key to that is keeping it in development. We are.
BTW, the dead babies work out better. They don’t wiggle as much.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
A metric assload is roughly equivalent to a metric shit-ton, which is about 2220 pounds. Of shit.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:28 pm
A metric Ton is 2204.62 Pounds of Fudge.
A Long Ton is 2240 Pounds of Fudge.
A Short Ton is 2000 Pounds of Fudge.
Now im in the mood for Fudge…
October 19th, 2007 at 11:46 am
Thanks for the convertions. I was a bit lost.
October 19th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Amber is right on the money, the game is a turd. No amount of sugar coating is going to change that. Its does zero, it brings zero and its never going to do anything.
I’m not going to do a war and piece novel on this, log in and see for yourself. There is a reason Sigil was bought out and the servers merged from 12 or whatever to 4. Not because its an exceptional game, thats for sure. Its just another title to add to the gallery of broken and unpopulated station pass game list.
October 22nd, 2007 at 1:10 pm
I tried Vangaurd at launch and sort of enjoyed it up to lvl 10. At which point it became really apparent that if you didn’t have a reliable set of people to group with, you were in for a really rough time. PuGs simply didn’t work well, and trying to get decent gear from soloable quests or drops was a losing proposition. I actually liked crafting untill I discovered that I would be unable to make anything level appropriate for anywhere I could currently gather in my teens. This was when the recipes/leveling system were merely wholey inadequate rather than being broken( a lot of that system was just plain not working - the parts that were working were wholely inadequate). I think that if they’ve fixed some of the lag I might reccomend it to people who have a very strong reliable set of friends to play with. For anyone who wants to solo, or catch pickup groups, or intends to craft to get their gear rather than doing group quests … JUST. SAY. NO.
LoTRO on the other hand is a pretty good game through the whole range of playtypes, and will run on your machine to boot. Why one would play Vangaurd instead seems pretty hard to justify.
October 24th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
I got a bit too hyped on vanguard. When it finally came and it played out a bit, i wanted to abandon it. My wife dragged me back into it. She’s latched onto the game like it was the last anorexic fish in a sterile sea.
Anyways, im playing it again but I still have reservations about the game. It has a lot of potential, but i’ve learned my lesson over the years. If its not in the game at release it probably never will be done, or done well (flying mounts, raid content, etc.) Additionally, I dont see much prospect for redoing all the little things that annoy me.
Things in vanguard that annoy me still: Poorly done NPC voices. Those same voices insulting me at every turn. Still having only 3 or 4 choices in hair styles (call me fickle, but everyone looks alike). Gold Farmer tells every few minutes, or even seconds. Prejuvenile spam chat in region chat (thankfully i can turn that off, but you miss out on some stuff). And all sorts of other little things.
If one more halfling asks me if I have a pumpkin pie in my pants im going to rip his sniveling little head off and mail it to one Brad McQuaid.
November 5th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
With the latest Thom’s latest Producers Letter, it seems that SOE isn’t quite done tinkering with Vanguard yet. This can only be bad. If you want a stable community, the way to do that is to fix the game, not re-implement everything. (see SW:G)
Good luck with that.